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Guys - lets be clear here. A low power PC is not a "green" PC.

The amount of energy and toxic materials that go into the manufacture of all the components make the "green" label pure marketing hogwash.

Posts like this make it seem like AT is either being paid to regurgitate marketing media, or you really aren't clear on the concept of "green".

Or...?

What is the EPEAT rating on this green desktop? Has it been rated yet?

Hi everyone. This is the owner of Cade PC checking in. I noticed the hits on my site from this interesting web address and decided to take a look. I hope you don't mind if I address some of the comments on this post about our company (which I had no knowledge of until now).

Boomer - I understand your frustration. To be clear, there is no "marketing hogwash" on Cade PC that calls our computers green. I don't believe there is such a thing as a green pc. The author of the post used this term to describe our computers. I can't blame them, though, since many people use the term "green" as shorthand for an environmentally preferrable choice (not always good for the environment, though!). While this often frustrates me as a consumer, I understand that it is hard for many companies to avoid (resist?). I abhor greenwashing, and have avoided using "green" and "environmentally friendly" as much as possible (maybe completely?) on our site. Yet, I know there are people googling "green computers" trying to find a better choice. I'm still working on how to better connect with people using this common shorthand when looking for better products.

While the computers are "still just computers" that are energy efficient and use lead-free parts, our company is run more sustainably than any other computer company I know of. Our computers are shipped in re-used packaging (boxes and cushioning we receive from our distributors), plus we use 100% post-consumer recycled paper, recycled office supplies, and many other improved practices. I'm an environmentalist that got interested in computers, not the other way around. And yes, we purchase carbon credits for our company and our customers. Credits are not perfect, but are a good option after reducing power consumption. We only purchase credits that invest in renewable energy projects through a reputable source, carbonfund.org. (no tree planting for us!).

MamaChilanga - Our computers are not EPEAT rated for one simple (and sad!) reason. The certification process is a bit too intensive and expensive for a small company like ours. I've reviewed the criteria, and I'm confident our computers would receive at least a silver rating, but as of yet we have not invested the time in developing the supporting materials needed for certification. For example, you need a corporate environmental policy demonstrating consistency with ISO 14001, a (self-certified) "environmental management system", and a corporate report consistent with Performance Track or GRI. I don't even know what GRI is! So, while I'm positive our small, frugally run business is way ahead of the large manufacturers in terms of sustainability, we have yet to take the time to dive into this beaurocratic rating system. I think it is good to help keep the "big boys" honest, but not designed for small businesses.

If anyone else has questions about our products, please visit the site and submit your comments. You will receive a prompt and thorough response.

Greetings --

I work with EPEAT and, obviously, I'm a huge supporter. I'm quite surprised to hear anyone making claims about being able to meet the EPEAT standard, but being unable to invest the "time in developing the supporting materials."

EPEAT works because people are forced to develop the materials. It is the process of developing the materials that allows someone to determine if they actually meet the standard.

If you haven't developed the materials, you can't really know if you meet the standard or not.

You might, for example, think your products meet all of the European requirements for less hazardous materials (the RoHS standard), but as you begin preparing the materials, you might discover otherwise.

I will admit, however, that the GRI stuff is probably new to a small start up. This did not, however, stop Zonbu, another very small company from going through the EPEAT process.

I applaud everyone who is attempting to buy or make "green" computers. I would just be sure to look for proof.

EPEAT is the best system for identifying green computers. You can check out the 600 EPEAT registered computers from more than 20 manufacturers (both large and small) at www.epeat.net.

Hi EPEAT Boy,

Sorry to upset you, I did not mean to throw any stones. But let me respond to some of your points so you (and others) understand my view.

I've looked at the general descriptions of the criteria on the EPEAT website, and I have reviewed the design and components of systems that have qualified. I would like to review the actual criteria, but for some reason I do not understand, it is required that people pay $70 to $90 dollars to purchase a copy of the actual criteria to review them (and before you can register a product).

I believe my systems meet RoHS, for example, because every part I buy is marketed, sold, and labeled as RoHS compliant. Maybe I am overlooking something that is explained in the criteria.

Some of the requirements are easy even for a small business. For example, declaring the amount of recycled material in packaging. That one is easy because even 0% qualifies, the only requirement is that you declare it. Oy! Let me emphasize that I think most of the criteria appear valuable (again, I haven't paid to read the detailed criteria yet), but I couldn't help point out that some of this is an exercise in reporting.

The environmental policy and reporting requirements are the real show-stoppers for me. I can see countless hours of reading, learning, talking with people, reading ISO standards, etc., just to figure out how to explain how my tiny shop works. I'm not trying to sell to government or large purchasers (the main EPEAT market), we do not have factories in Mexico or China, we generate little waste, re-use packaging materials, buy post consumer recycled office materials, recycle all of our e-trash through responsible outlets, etc. All I can do is share this information with people and see if this matters more to them than the fact that the D$LL machine has an EPEAT rating.

How many small, custom PC builders are certified through EPEAT? Zonbu may be a small company when compared to DELL, HP, Lenovo, Apple, and the few other large, publicly traded companies with EPEAT certified computers. But Zonbu is a Silicon Valley startup founded by 2 long-time heavies in the computer industry, including one considered the "father of the wireless internet." Not exactly my league, unfortunately.

I'm glad that you support all makers of 'green' (less harmful!) PCs, but I don't think EPEAT is the only "proof." If you are a large organization purchasing a large number of computers and have little time to shop, then EPEAT is a great tool to help you get a good computer. However, I hope individual "green" consumers consider EPEAT as one of many tools available to them as they research their computer purchase.

Sorry for any sarcasm, honestly. But just as you take comments about EPEAT to heart, so do I when it comes to the 'green' merits of my company compared to the large manufacturers.