apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

It's sort of funny... but is that particular bag made from recycled materials? If not, it doesn't really matter if it's "recyclable."

If it got people reusing the plastic bags, it'd be hot.

The whole plastic bag issue exists because stores insisted on switching to plastic, claiming that making bags from petroleum products was more environmentally sound than making bags from trees (which are farmed -- we're not talking cutting down the rain forest for your grocery bags)... and then they give you 16 plastic bags for a grocery load that would have been packed in maybe 3 paper bags.

Paper bags were also reusable for all but really wet garbage, and they biodegrade handily. They had flat bottoms, so you could pack your groceries in a rational way where things didn't bang around in the bag.

Plastic bags... the triumph of corporate greenwashing.

I completely agree, Wende. I no longer have a car, but when I did, paper bags could be stacked next to one another in the trunk and they wouldn't (usually) fall over. I ended up repacking plastic bags to get them into the house.

Now that I'm in New York, though, I do have to say that plastic bags are reusable as garbage bags. Now that we have cloth bags, we can't figure out what we're going to do when our dwindling supply of plastic bags runs out.

I reuse plastic bags for trash can liners and for "doggy duty," neither of which would work so well with a paper bag. (Unfortunately, I don't use bring home enough groceries in a week to have enough bags, so I have to supplement the latter activity my purchasing bags made for the purpose.)

As for being biodegradable, it doesn't particularly matter when they end up in a landfill anyway. When I was in college, I interned at an engineering company that had a contract with Waste Management to survey one of their landfills and keep track of the location and volume of every load dumped - its the law in KY to do this, and also comes in handy when someone needs to locate a body that was thrown in a dumpster (That really did happen once.) Anyway, at one point a portion of the landfill had to be excavated and there were newspapers in there from 1974 that were wrinkled and damp with leachate, but were still very easily read.

Ah, yes -- landfills with inadequate anaerobic decomposition. Good point.

I'm amused to hear claims that paper "can't" be used for kitchen garbage and poop scooping, though, as that's what it was used for before the popularity of grocery store plastic bags. My parents' kitchen garbage container used a paper bag, and I remember pet-clean-up duty with paper all too well.

I didn't say that paper bags "can't" be used, I just prefer how the plastic bags fulfill these functions. I can tie the handles when I toss them to help keep the trash can sitting beside my house from becoming too offensive in the smell department. And putting a paper bag in the bathroom or office trash cans brings up the whole square-peg-in-a-round-hole thing...well, you get the idea at least.

I may be ignorant; but I find it difficult to believe that with all the technologies we have, no one has come out with biodegradable "plastic" bags... Being in retail, I admit that it's probably cheaper to use plastic bags than paper -- and I think that's really the driving force for the big stores, not necessarily the bogus reason that petroleum based plastic bags are more environmentally friendly. But if we can switch to biodegradable plastic bags, then how we use them or whether we recycle them really becomes a moot point.

There will always be occasions that call for paper, and there will always be reasons to use plastic. I really don't see either disappearing in this life time.

(BTW, I personally prefer paper to pick up after the dogs... It just seems less yucky than thin plastic...)

Picking up after dogs.
Hmm.
Putting biodegradable waste matter into a container that is NOT biodegradable... so that it can sit and fill up a landfill for ...what... 100 years?

There are biodegradable garbage bags and dog poop bags, made by a company called EcoPlanet/EcoChoices (they have a website). I find the garbage bags are quite thin, but I love the dog poop bags!

While we're on the subject, how about low-cost grocery bagger retraining to save the earth? The sullen clerk at Fry's last night insisted on distributing 10 smallish items among 5 (count 'em, FIVE) plastic bags. That's just stupid and wasteful, but arguing with the bagger gets one nowhere.

I am amazed by how often when I walk my dog, I am able to collected a fistful of discarded plastic bags on the street. Sometimes, I do put biodegradeable poop into the bags I pick up. Usually I just cram the pick-ups into public trash bins to keep them from ending up in trees along the street. Plastic bags in trees are a pet peeve of mine. Maybe every one with a dog should think about picking up some of the litter as they walk along with the pup.

Biodegradable is still not as good as reusable. 1) things don't biodegrade in a landfill 2) most city composting programs will pull out pla (that's one type of the biodegrable plastic) because it looks like plastic and can mess up the system 3) for you to make pla break down in your home composting, you need to maintain a temp of around 140 degrees for multiple days and 4) it still takes energy to make biodegrable bags or to recycle (and if it is just down cycled, recycling doesn't do any good) reusable bags only need to be made once. Resuable dog bags are a tough sell, but no one should be using plastic shopping bags anymore. that's sooo 2006.
Oh, and by the way, wende, you can ask the bagger for no bags or one bag, you just need to remember to do it!

This brings up something I've been going back and forth on for awhile now. My partner and I have a boutique/gallery. We currently have "biodegradable" plastic bags. But then we found out that the companies idea of "biodegradable" means it only takes like 500years, instead of 100years for them to degrade.

Not really all that helpful. So now we're pondering using paper bags, but the cost is SO much higher, and we're a new store making very little $$, so we're looking for other options before we splurge on the paper.

We'd love to find an option that works for both our budget and our environmental concerns. We are OK with paying more than the price of the average non-bio bags (and we DID pay more for our 500yr bio bags) but we would also very much like to stay within our budgets.

Any suggestions?

Angie, what about giving your customers a special discount for bringing in their own packaging? Or returning the packaging to your store for the next shopping trip?

Rachel (between denver/nyc):Yes, I had thought about that too. It's hard to actually get people to bring the bags though with our type of store, since people don't always plan to stop by, as opposed to grocery shopping which is usually planned. But I agree, it can't hurt to have the option!

And we always ask each customer "do you need a bag". Sometimes all it takes is for the customer to take that second to ask themselves "oh yeah, DO I need a bag?" and they realize they really don't.

Angie in Montreal,
how about reusing scavenged plastic or paper bags from other places, and putting a sticker with your store info on them? or turning them into art (or political) objects in some other way by adding decoration or comments? your customers might appreciate the gesture.

i know a woman who sewed gorgeous little bags to put her merchandise in, but that is not for everyone.

Are any of you familiar with the BioBag company? They make their bags from corn and you can compost the bag or incinerate it with no ill effects. It actually does break down.

They make dog bags and bags for stores to use for their customers.

The website is www.biobagusa.com

There's a great store in teh netherlands called studiohergebruick.com
They package everything purchased into their own creative, recycled packaging. I received a gift from there and it was wrapped in an old poster. Very cool.

I can't really see this becoming a major trend, but this all reminds me: In Japan--some years ago, anyway--shopkeepers would fold up what you bought into colorful squares of cloth or paper and tie them with string. They were beautiful. It's fun to imagine the sullen baggers doing that. . . .

I like the "styrofoam" popcorn made of baking soda that dissolves when you dump it into the sink and run water on it.

Is it true that styrofoam is eternal?

ooops

the address is really

http://www.studiohergebruik.nl/

Bring canvas bags to the store. Sure, it is nice to reuse those store plastic bags for doggie cleanup, but they are much too big for the purpose. Buy the little ones (preferably made of corn plastic) to use for doggies.

I honestly only buy what I need when I need it, instead of stock-piling like my mom does. I usually take a single paper bag, and sometimes bring my own bag. Plastic bags are such a hassle as far as practicalities go; often they are required to be double-bagged so they don't collapse under the weight of my groceries or the items roll about in the car on my ride home. I end up knotting the handles, only to find myself ripping the bag apart to access its contents...which doesn't allow for reusing very well.

I have to check out those Bio Bags, because I tend to use the dog park doggie bags...I'd love a better option.

I have been training my best friend to make more careful decisions. Just the other day we were out-of-town and went to pick up lunch at Wild Oats and she turned down getting a bag to carry her lunch in, and the clerk and bagger both applauded her. You could tell she was secretly proud of that tiny step she had made to do her part. Each of those tiny moments add up, so I was very proud of her. She's normally the type that consumes a lot of resources only because she's never stopped to think about the damage from its misuse and overuse. I'm glad she's opening her eyes a little wider now. :)